- Season 6
- Episode 2
- Architecture, Governance, Urbanism
As land in cities becomes scarce and expensive, public spaces are bearing the brunt. Can new models of urban development reconcile communal needs with profit?
New capital cities rarely succeed. Will Nusantara — Indonesia’s largest urban gamble to date — be different? In this episode, we find out how Nusantara will avoid the pitfalls of planned cities from the past.
As an architect, urbanist, politician, and social media heavyweight, Ridwan Kamil brings a rare combination of creative and public sector experience to his current role as Nusantara’s Development Curator.
With Ridwan leading its curation, Nusantara (also known as Ibu Kota Nusantara, or IKN) aims to be an inclusive city that blends the natural and built environments. Will it beat the odds and become Indonesia’s new green urban heart?
00:07:07 | Why build a new capital? |
00:10:36 | “This is the most expensive political decision in our history. We need to be successful.” |
00:12:21 | “It takes […] hundreds or more years to be the Washington, DC that we know today.” |
00:11:46 | Designing a human-centred city |
00:14:36 | “So I have to become the police to make sure, hey, ground floor is for public use.” |
00:17:54 | “I reduced the right of way because usually in a big city they tend to show off by having a very wide right of way.” |
00:22:12 | Sustainability from the start |
00:22:39 | “All the buildings must get gold or platinum green certificates.” |
00:23:28 | “In the future, 100% electricity will be coming from renewable energy.” |
00:25:35 | “I will ask, where is your forest on the rooftop?” |
While critics point to Nusantara’s environmental impact, remote location, and accelerated timeline, the project offers a glimpse into how we might build cities from scratch in the 21st century.
The decision to move from Jakarta dates back to colonial times. What’s different now is the scale of ambition and the emphasis on sustainability.
One of Ridwan’s key contributions has been prioritising public spaces and connectivity. He proposed a “public ground floor” approach, where ground-level areas are used for social interactions, retail, and community activities.
As a net-zero-carbon city, Nusantara promises several groundbreaking features. It will run entirely on renewable energy, permit only electric vehicles within its boundaries, and pioneer a unique approach to urban forestry where architecture deliberately takes a backseat to nature.
Ridwan knows infrastructure alone won’t build Nusantara; people need a reason to move. With his suggestions to foster job opportunities, create local attractions, and offer tax breaks, he hopes Nusantara will become a place where Indonesians feel a sense of purpose and opportunity.
Beyond curating the city’s design, Ridwan addresses public concerns about deforestation. He clarifies that Nusantara’s site was an old eucalyptus plantation, now being rewilded with native trees to revive biodiversity, creating a genuine tropical forest.
However, the project faces significant challenges. The pressure to complete phase one quickly has led to an accelerated construction timeline, while the longer-term challenge lies in attracting people and businesses to this new urban centre.
The project team acknowledges that building a truly vibrant city requires patience — possibly decades — and a delicate balance between government planning and private sector investment.
Keep reading if you want to deep dive into this interview’s content and get more out of it. You can also find out more about this episode’s guest/s and sponsor/s, and the team that put it all together.
This episode is brought to you by:
The Holcim Foundation for Sustainable Construction
The Holcim Foundation helps drive systemic change towards a more sustainable built environment. It was founded in 2003 to define and promote the key principles of sustainability for the construction sector and is committed to accelerating the sector’s transformation so that people and the planet can thrive. The Foundation has investigated various aspects of sustainable construction via a series of roundtables and conferences with international experts. It has also recognised excellent contributions to this field with the Holcim Foundation Awards which are considered the world’s most significant competition for sustainable design. Committed to a holistic approach that recognises the equal importance and interdependence of four key goals, the Foundation combines the collective knowledge, ideas, and solutions of our global community of experts with a recognised platform of international competitions to democratise thought leadership for the entire sector. |
![]() |
This episode is brought to you by:
The Holcim Foundation for Sustainable Construction
The Holcim Foundation helps drive systemic change towards a more sustainable built environment. It was founded in 2003 to define and promote the key principles of sustainability for the construction sector and is committed to accelerating the sector’s transformation so that people and the planet can thrive.
The Foundation has investigated various aspects of sustainable construction via a series of roundtables and conferences with international experts. It has also recognised excellent contributions to this field with the Holcim Foundation Awards which are considered the world’s most significant competition for sustainable design.
Committed to a holistic approach that recognises the equal importance and interdependence of four key goals, the Foundation combines the collective knowledge, ideas, and solutions of our global community of experts with a recognised platform of international competitions to democratise thought leadership for the entire sector.
Ridwan Kamil is a self-described “multi-dimensional person” who brings a unique blend of expertise to his role as Development Curator of Nusantara (IKN), Indonesia’s new capital city. Born in 1971 to academic parents in Bandung, he founded the award-winning design practice Urbane Indonesia before entering politics. His career spans roles as Mayor of Bandung and Governor of West Java, while maintaining parallel interests in business. He received an honorary degree from Glasgow University in 2024 (Doctor of the University).
Beyond his architectural and political achievements, Ridwan has emerged as one of Indonesia’s most influential public figures, with nearly 30 million social media followers across platforms. He’s also made cameo appearances in 17 Indonesian films, strictly following three rules: filming only in Bandung or West Java, keeping appearances brief, and taking no payment – using these appearances to promote his region.
E | rk@urbane.co.idt
If you heard it in this episode, we likely have a link for it right here. Click on any topics, people, buildings, places, products and/or technologies listed below to learn more about each of them.
00:10:02 | “…of past custom-built capital cities — like Brasília …” “The cities designed to be capitals” | CNN |
00:14:03 | “…we call it [the] GREENSHIP index…” “GREENSHIP Rating Tools New Building” | Green Building Council Indonesia |
00:22:10 | “…will be net-zero carbon emissions…” “Net Zero Carbon Cities” | World Economic Forum |
00:00:13 | “…Ridwan Kamil, the recently appointed curator …” “Ridwan Kamil” | Bloomberg |
00:01:36 | “…You were founder of Urbane Indonesia…” “Urbane Indonesia” | Urbane Indonesia |
00:05:31 | “…honorary degree from Glasgow University…” “University of Glasgow” | University of Glasgow |
00:07:37 | “…the idea of the President Jokowi …” “Joko Widodo” | Britannica |
00:08:38 | “…Sukarno, the first president, also coined …” “Sukarno” | Britannica |
00:09:02 | “…during Suharto’s [that] time also plan to move…” “Suharto” | Britannica |
00:23:25 | “…It’s already built by our PLN projects…” “PLN (Company Profile)” | PLN |
00:29:07 | “…summoned by Prabowo, the President Elect…” “Prabowo Subianto” | Britannica |
00:00:00 | “…Nusantara, the new capital city of Indonesia…” “Nusantara” (East Kalimantan, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:00:01 | “…the new capital city of Indonesia…” “Indonesia” | Britannica |
00:01:41 | “…former mayor of Bandung, the city governor…” “Bandung” (West Java, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:01:42 | “…the city governor of West Java, Indonesia.…” “West Java” (Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:01:51 | “…under construction in East Kalimantan…” “East Kalimantan” (Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:07:51 | “…from Batavia, now Jakarta, to other cities…” “Jakarta” (West Java, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:07:51 | “…from Batavia, now Jakarta, to other cities…” “Jakarta” (Batavia (now Jakarta), West Java, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:08:45 | “…city of Palangkaraya — exactly in the middle of Kalimantan…” “Palangkaraya” (Palangkaraya, Kalimantan, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:08:48 | “…exactly in the middle of Kalimantan…” “Kalimantan” (Kalimantan, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:09:10 | “…move the capital from Jakarta to Jonggol …” “Jonggol” (West Java, Indonesia) | Wikipedia |
00:09:13 | “…Jonggol is an area in the Bogor region…” “Bogor” (West Java, Indonesia) | Britannica |
00:12:19 | “…applaud is Washington, DC; but it takes…” “Washington, D.C.” (United States) | Britannica |
There are no design features discussed in this episode.
00:18:34 | “…Nusantara will be [an] EV-only city…” “How Do All-Electric Cars Work?” | US Department of Energy |
00:23:21 | “…power — hydro power; and…” “Hydroelectric Energy” | National Geographic Education |
Host
Nirmal Kishnani
Producer
Maxime Flores
Editor-at-large
Narelle Yabuka
Senior communications executive
Sana Gupta
Senior editor
Tyler Yeo
Art director (video)
Alexander Melck | Phlogiston
Sound technician and editor
Kelvin Brown | Phlogiston
Video editors
Guellor Muguruka | Phlogiston
You can follow us and share your views on
If you like this episode and want to hear more, head to one of these podcast directories
or other listening apps where you follow podcasts. There, you can listen to other Ecogradia episodes and write a review.
Better still, subscribe to our podcast today. Every new episode will be automatically downloaded on your chosen device, ready to be enjoyed offline, anytime, anywhere. And by doing so, you’ll be helping us produce even more great content.
Subscribe to our newsletter and be the first to know
Sign up to find out who’s next on the show, which ideas and solutions are moving sustainability forward. Get our newsletter in your inbox once every two weeks.
Recent podcast episodes
Recent blog posts
Before posting, please review our comment policy here.
Contact us
Ecogradia Private Limited
2 Shenton Way
#15–04, SGX Centre I
Singapore 068804
Subscribe to our newsletter and be the first to know
Sign up to find out who’s next on the show, which ideas and solutions are moving sustainability forward. Get our newsletter in your inbox once every two weeks.
Recent podcast episodes
Recent blog posts
Contact us
Ecogradia Private Limited
2 Shenton Way
#15–04, SGX Centre I
Singapore 068804
Got a quick question or an idea to share? Maybe you’d like to recommend a guest or become a sponsor? Get in touch with us now by filling up the form below.
Sign up to find out who’s next on the show, which ideas and solutions are moving sustainability forward. Get our newsletter in your inbox once every two weeks.